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Today in Panopticon news [Thu, 22-Dec-2005 1:53 PM]
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[music |Katastrophe Wife -- Blue Valient]

This happens all the time: just when you think things are bad in the US, the UK shows how it's really done...


(I couldn't find a UK plate generator...)

Britain will be first country to monitor every car journey
Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.

Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.

The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.

By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. [...] Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.

(Previously.)

linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: [info]smackfu
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:01 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Yikes. It would not be at all surprising to me if they used this to give speeding tickets. They already have much hated speed cameras.

...On further reflection, I think tracking your every movement is worse than a speeding ticket.
[User Picture]From: [info]abates
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:04 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Not one but two mentions of terrorism.

But in all the terrorist attacks so far in London they've taken the Underground and buses...
[User Picture]From: [info]mcfnord
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:19 PM (UTC)

(Link)

In the U.S. since the terrorism you have to put a return address on mail you give to the post office. Like terrorists can't make up an address. This baffles me.
[User Picture]From: [info]baconmonkey
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:09 PM (UTC)

(Link)

I read something a while back about Brittan was considering requiring that all cars have transponders in them that would auotomatically alert the police when the driver speeds, and issue a ticket - much like some rental car companies use.
[User Picture]From: [info]waider
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:20 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Not that I have any inclination to defend my next-door neighbours, but I heard pretty much the same deal about the US. You can't believe everything you read/hear/get emailed from some bozo...
[User Picture]From: [info]hafnir
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:10 PM (UTC)

(Link)

At what point is it easier to just put some kind of lojack/transponder/rfid on every car? (and on every thing and every person...?)
[User Picture]From: [info]lexinatrix
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:11 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Weren't there several stories of annoyed motorists maiming the video cameras along the roadways?
From: [info]vincel
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:47 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Gatso speed cameras are regularly attacked. Sometimes tractors are used to pull them over; more commonly the lenses are painted over, or even "necklaced" with burning tyres.

The CCTV cameras discussed in the article are largely ignored, since they cannot at present be used for speeding convictions.

[User Picture]From: [info]sfmusiconline
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:18 PM (UTC)

(Link)

if this is to prevent crimninal and terrorist activities, is the British government unaware of the ability to:
a) take off your plates (as some criminals do)
b) change plates (see almost every james bond movie)
***side note, anyone ever seen the tourist stores near Fisherman's wharf that sell "novelty" (read: stolen) out of state liscense plates?)
c) remove the transponder?

This sounds more like big brother trying to spy on the everyday person more than an attempt to thwart high crime and terrorism...

And as far as the transponders, they don't have to do it malisciously, I mean how many people have a fast track or ezpass in this country voluntarily? Think about it...
[User Picture]From: [info]supersat
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:56 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Of course, most criminals are stupid, and probably wouldn't think about their plates.

Organized crime, on the other hand, is a completely different game. I wouldn't be surprised if you could print out your own license plate, tape it on to your car, and confuse whatever OCR system they're using.
[User Picture]From: [info]g_na
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:01 PM (UTC)

(Link)

I keep my FasTrak transponder in the mylar bag in the glove box except for the few seconds while I drive through the toll booth. Just in case.
[User Picture]From: [info]charles
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:50 PM (UTC)

(Link)

While these measures do nothing to prevent particular criminal or terrorist acts, they're effective forensic measures after the fact. The massive CCTV presence in London didn't prevent the London bombings, but it did provide a lot of subsequent evidence that allowed police to determine precisely how the attack occurred.

The database of car movements will presumably serve a similar function. If a car bomb goes off in the middle of the city, there's a good chance that investigators will quickly be able to trace the recent movements of that car regardless of whether its plates were legit or not.

Of course, whether this capability is worth the privacy/security trade-off of the government being able to trace everyone's movements regardless of whether they did anything wrong or not is another question entirely.
[User Picture]From: [info]pnendick
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:51 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Honestly, what is the point? Even though the UK has a much more legitimate reasons to fear terrorism than the US, the notion of counter-terrorism is hardly mentioned in this news piece. Much more time is spent selling this as a way to deal with criminals in cars, something I am not aware of being such a pressing issue there. And wouldn't a mandatory RFID sort of system be more effective in that cause than this license plate scanning? What is it really for? Is it really about the thought police? Why, why, why? I don't get it!
[User Picture]From: [info]nelc
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 12:58 AM (UTC)

(Link)

Politically, an RFID system won't fly. The ID card system has had enough trouble getting through Parliament, a mandatory transponder/RFID legislation would just die if they tried to pass it. Besides, I reckon a lot of them would just... stop working shortly after installation. "Doesn't work? Beats me what's wrong with it, squire. I'm sure it was fine when when I bought it. Computers, eh!"

Whereas a CCTV system wouldn't rely on the co-operation of a bolshie public. But it beats me what makes the government think that they can actually make a nationwide system work reliably enough. It's not as though government computer projects have worked particularly well in the past. And the London congestion charge system isn't especially reliable, I've heard, and that only has to recognise a far smaller number of cars going into and out of London, not track them all around the country.
[User Picture]From: [info]yosh
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 10:56 PM (UTC)

What a waste

(Link)

Everyone knows that bombers prefer public transportation anyways...
[User Picture]From: [info]josephgrossberg
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 1:53 PM (UTC)

Re: What a waste

(Link)

Yeah, but don't suicide bombers need a ride home? ... Oh yeah. Hmm. Um ... "If you've not nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."
[User Picture]From: [info]jef_poskanzer
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:13 PM (UTC)

Sorry about the lack of British plates.

(Link)

You could probably have used a British Columbia plate and no one would have known the difference.
[User Picture]From: [info]kehoea
Sat, 24-Dec-2005 9:02 PM (UTC)

Re: Sorry about the lack of British plates.

(Link)

No-one except for, uhh, the guy in the UK who made the first comment, and the rest of us Europeans?
[User Picture]From: [info]mcfnord
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:16 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Is it reasonable to request that the data also be used to optimize traffic flow and public transit development? Or is the danger just too great to be practical yet? WHEN WILL THIS TERRORIST MENACE BE STOPPED?
[User Picture]From: [info]skington
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 12:31 AM (UTC)

(Link)

Given that the Government has been talking about monitoring cars using GPS to implement road taxing, which is a problem up North because tall buildings get in the way of GPS satellites (not to mention the inherent security problem of not being able to trust the device that monitors car movement), I do hope that they use it to track aggregate movement of traffic. (I remember a specialist saying that nobody actually knows where people drive from and to, they just know how much traffic is on any given road, and guess the rest.)
From: [info]zzedar
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:18 PM (UTC)

Echelon

(Link)

You misspelled "echelon."
[User Picture]From: [info]jwz
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 12:47 AM (UTC)

Re: Echelon

(Link)

Doh! Fixed.
[User Picture]From: [info]wfaulk
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:20 PM (UTC)

Not completely accurate, but close

(Link)

[User Picture]From: [info]decibel45
Thu, 22-Dec-2005 11:31 PM (UTC)

(Link)

Hey, that should help things greatly, 'cause monitoring everywhere else with cameras has helped reduce crime SO MUCH!



On another note, it would me interesting to be involved with that database...
[User Picture]From: [info]telecart
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 1:14 AM (UTC)

(Link)

Just cover your plate with nail gloss; to the naked eye it will look a-okay, but to a camera it will look reflective and unreadable.



Also: I find it abhorrant that these people have the tenacity to use tax money for this. Yes, this is really what the people want their money to be used for. Sheesh,
[User Picture]From: [info]violentbloom
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 1:58 AM (UTC)

(Link)

clear nail gloss or sparkley nail gloss?
CA plates have a reflective coat as a background, seems like you'd need to match that.
[User Picture]From: [info]pavel_lishin
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 4:28 AM (UTC)

(Link)

I'd probably make copies of plates, and slap them on identical-looking cars. Wonder if the system would notice that the cars seem to have an average speed of a kajillion kph.
[User Picture]From: [info]erg
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 8:37 AM (UTC)

(Link)

Why do I have the feeling the Expats from the UK in BC, somehow did better with their forefathers than we did with the Puritans?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051222/SWINGERS22/TPNational/Canada
[User Picture]From: [info]spudtater
Fri, 23-Dec-2005 5:08 PM (UTC)

(Link)

I don't suppose it's legal to get license plates with fancy lettering on them?
[User Picture]From: [info]lovingboth
Sat, 24-Dec-2005 11:05 PM (UTC)

(Link)

No, there's a been a set font and format for all new number plates for a couple of years now.